1974 1200 SSS

[classicdat]

My 2c (as a B110 owner/fan):

It is a nice clean looking example. and i like it for sure!

But is is a shame about the registration status. not that anyone is accusing you of anything dodgey, or corrupt. but it would have been better to do a discrete reshell, and swap everything else over and retain plates & tags. the SSS is a standard deluxe shell with some bolt on bits and some painted stripes after all! however the previous owner not retaining SSS on the papers, and not having black plates, has unwittingly devalued the car considerably, and opened the door for a lot of authenticity questions and opinions.

There was a very nice original restored 1200 SSS, that sold by a local enthusiast down here about 3-4 years ago for I think it was $11995. and a SSS IMO will only increase in value over time.

I sold my restored 1200 as a roller, because purchaser is reshelling his SSS, and swapping everything else (same as what you have done) but he will be retaining plates and tags and SSS history.

Obviously it is not abnormal for competition cars and classic BDA escorts and the likes to be reshelled on a semi regular basis! doesnt meant you dont see these on trademe for $80K!

IMO your asking price is fair enough (if it is as clean as it looks) I know what I spent on mine and sold it for.

You have a reasonably small niche' market for such a car. if I had spare money I would be interested for sure, but you need a genuine Datto fan to appreciate the car for what it is, and pay accordingly.

I think you would be a fool to sell for anything under 8K as it sits. I think if it had original Black plates & SSS doc's then I would be thinking 10-12K as it sits, and more like 15-16K if engine bay was cleaned up and resprayed, rust was addressed, and the old girl got some new carpet and any other tired / worn areas were addressed, back to former glory.

Thats just my opinion, and like arseholes everyone has one.

Good luck for the sale, and I hope you get what you want for it.

I agree with most of this but would caution that the market is very wary of any spending currently, let alone luxury stuff, like a classic car. $12,000 3 years ago would be ahead of the market today, most Jap 'classics' (310's excluded) seem to have slipped a bit from what I have seen.
This would interest me registered as SSS, particularly with it's original plates, I see something in a classic car mag recently about getting the original black plates reassigned, could be worth looking into and might push it toward $12,000.

[Blair]

Yes this is the same car that was/has been for sale before over that last 5 years or so..... I remember when all this came up on dastun.co.nz about if it was or wasnt genuine. Ive had a look over there, didnt find the thread tho......

There are a couple of things with this car that, just dont really add up.........

Why is there a 120Y SSS type badge on the upper left corner of the glove box??


When all the other 1200 SSS out there seem to have the badge placed on the middle right hand side of the glove box and the badge is similar to the one on the grill(smaller type like used on the 1600 SSS C pillar vents)?? Plus look at the difference between the steering wheel centers.....


By the looks of it, there is a 1200 coupe tacho/rev counter mounted in the center console.


When once again all other 1200 SSS I have seen have had either a "SMITHS" or "VDO" tacho/rev counter fitted there(More had "VDO" units) ??


The "SSS" grill badge looks, to me, to be to small and the one on the boot lid is way to big and in the wrong place.
Your grill.......


My grill......

Yes I know my 1200 isnt a SSS. Just using the picture to give an idea of the difference is size.

The "SSS" badge on your boot lid, to me, would look to be a similar size to the badge that is meant for the grill and vice verse for the one on the boot lid.

Where you have the SSS badge on your boot lid, is usually where the Deluxe badge is placed. Also see where the smaller SSS badge is placed.


Im not trying to de-value your investment or throw stones, just to throw stones. Im sure that the HG 559 rego plate was once a SSS, going by the pictures on your TM auction. But they are not coming up on carjam, as they came up with "This plate has never been registered". So I dont know if you can or cant get this car changed to a SSS. To me it just seems that there is to much that just does not add up. I dont know when or who has put on the badges and changed the tacho/rev counter. Not saying it was you or anything like that. Like you say, it would be easier to clear up the plate issues to sell/call the car a genuine 1200 SSS, but then it still leaves the other issues.

Call it whatever you like. Call me whatever you like. I just think its important to point out what a 1200 SSS had and where it should be placed, plus the plate issue. To many unknown's. To much could come back and bite you.

[tga_sss]

Yes this is the same car that was/has been for sale before over that last 5 years or so..... I remember when all this came up on dastun.co.nz about if it was or wasnt genuine. Ive had a look over there, didnt find the thread tho......

There are a couple of things with this car that, just dont really add up.........

Why is there a 120Y SSS type badge on the upper left corner of the glove box??


When all the other 1200 SSS out there seem to have the badge placed on the middle right hand side of the glove box and the badge is similar to the one on the grill(smaller type like used on the 1600 SSS C pillar vents)?? Plus look at the difference between the steering wheel centers.....


By the looks of it, there is a 1200 coupe tacho/rev counter mounted in the center console.


some of the original badges where lost with the original shell as when it was picked it was missing certain bits. these are badges that have been picked up by the guy that restored the car. as the badges are very hard to get hold of it was the best he could do at the time. plus not all the sss's released had the same badges the 74 sss's had different badges to the 72 for example and also the steeering wheel is 74 steering wheel from the original car. the one you pictured looks like the first 72 examples. different paint schemes were also released with some of them having wide stripes and thin stripes and also the front side panels had black stripes on the cars that were built for the racing series

i went into nissan today and got there stamp of approval on a ltsa mr16 form to apply for change of make and model details. this form has been sent away with all the details that i have on car that i can find and they will look it over fpor approval on whether or not the rego can be changed. if it is approved i will add photos to trade me and hopefully that will sort the people out that dont believe this is genuine. but of course its not completely genuine after being reshelled. but hopefuly the registration is the main point that will do the talking as the deluxe shell is completely the same to the shell used for the SSS's and unless people are completely fussy this shouldnt sway them from wanting the oppurtunity of owning one of the few sss's left on the road.


When once again all other 1200 SSS I have seen have had either a "SMITHS" or "VDO" tacho/rev counter fitted there(More had "VDO" units) ??


The "SSS" grill badge looks, to me, to be to small and the one on the boot lid is way to big and in the wrong place.
Your grill.......


My grill......

Yes I know my 1200 isnt a SSS. Just using the picture to give an idea of the difference is size.

The "SSS" badge on your boot lid, to me, would look to be a similar size to the badge that is meant for the grill and vice verse for the one on the boot lid.

Where you have the SSS badge on your boot lid, is usually where the Deluxe badge is placed. Also see where the smaller SSS badge is placed.


Im not trying to de-value your investment or throw stones, just to throw stones. Im sure that the HG 559 rego plate was once a SSS, going by the pictures on your TM auction. But they are not coming up on carjam, as they came up with "This plate has never been registered". So I dont know if you can or cant get this car changed to a SSS. To me it just seems that there is to much that just does not add up. I dont know when or who has put on the badges and changed the tacho/rev counter. Not saying it was you or anything like that. Like you say, it would be easier to clear up the plate issues to sell/call the car a genuine 1200 SSS, but then it still leaves the other issues.

Call it whatever you like. Call me whatever you like. I just think its important to point out what a 1200 SSS had and where it should be placed, plus the plate issue. To many unknown's. To much could come back and bite you.

[b110sss]

Gidday Blair, T
The rev counter is original and identical to mine.
I think if you talk to the chap down in Oamaru ( Car and Tractor Books ) he will tell you that there were a quite a few ' variations on the theme' and as far as the steering wheel centre goes I haven't seen one like that but I would not discount it either.If you look at his workshop manual supplement his early SSS had a totally different paint scheme to what this one or mine does.
Quite honestly I think that there are a few guys getting a bit pedantic here. As Kitch stated how many BDA Escorts are there around that have been reshelled- no one gives a sh#t- they are buying the plates/ engine number etc so IF the plate issue is sorted then I really don't see any issue, just a pity that on something as rare as this it all becomes a matter on public knowledge.
As far as the argument of non-originality goes does that then mean that if you replace a guard or a panel, change the carpets or hood lining then it is not the original car and its value becomes dodgy? -I don't think so, all he's done is that on a slightly larger scale.
Cheers
Dave

[tga_sss]

couldnt be more correct there dave. cheers for that. u got any pics of yours?

[dattoboy]

I think you will find that the last photo Blair posted is Daves 1200sss, such a sweet wee 1200 too.

[gingofthesouth]

Gidday Blair, T
The rev counter is original and identical to mine.
I think if you talk to the chap down in Oamaru ( Car and Tractor Books ) he will tell you that there were a quite a few ' variations on the theme' and as far as the steering wheel centre goes I haven't seen one like that but I would not discount it either.If you look at his workshop manual supplement his early SSS had a totally different paint scheme to what this one or mine does.
Quite honestly I think that there are a few guys getting a bit pedantic here. As Kitch stated how many BDA Escorts are there around that have been reshelled- no one gives a sh#t- they are buying the plates/ engine number etc so IF the plate issue is sorted then I really don't see any issue, just a pity that on something as rare as this it all becomes a matter on public knowledge.
As far as the argument of non-originality goes does that then mean that if you replace a guard or a panel, change the carpets or hood lining then it is not the original car and its value becomes dodgy? -I don't think so, all he's done is that on a slightly larger scale.
Cheers
Dave

Obviously your comment about "- no one gives a sh#t- they are buying the plates/ engine number etc" was proven wrong by the mere comments you are referring too. I wouldn't want a re-shell. I have SSS dash and every other SSS item for my 1600 but that doesn't make it a SSS.

" does that then mean that if you replace a guard or a panel, change the carpets or hood lining then it is not the original car and its value becomes dodgy?" The main part of the car is surely the shell. If you put Dolly Parton's tits and face on another woman does that make the new woman Dolly Parton? I don't think so.

Welcome to the site BTW.

tga, the car really is worth whatever somebody is willing to pay for it. If a potential buyer wants it for the SSS parts and is willing to pay more then awesome. Its also very welcome and refreshing that you have been very honest that it has been re-shelled. Then to those who bid will bid with confidence knowing exactly what they are getting (and obviously will bid accordingly and "won't give a shit").

Good luck with the sale and I hope you get heaps for it

[Kitch]

without turning this into a shit fight. there are valid comments from all.....

but the thing is the B110 SSS starts life as a deluxe 1200, anyway, so the authenticity of the shell hasnt changed, its just a reshell with like for like, its just the details on the paper that have been compromised (unfortunately).

Its not like a japanese SSS has been built from a NZ assembled car. the 1200 sss is unique to new zealand, and built in NZ by New Zealanders from original factory spec deluxe cars. the limited changes we should all know, and that is a cam grind, dellortos, a couple of SSS badges, a sports wheel, high back seats, Wards jellybean 12" mags and some flash black stipes on the bonnet! the suspension, brakes, gearbox, body, diff etc (and as far as I am aware colours) were all stock B110/deluxe specs.

My mate has a SSS that has been in storage for the last decade or so, and unfortunately the rego has lapsed, I offered him live plates & tags off a wrecked car of mine, but he wasnt interested, as when the day comes to get on the road, he will recomply and register as a SSS, as the extra costs and hassles outweigh the potential loss in value due to being a non-SSS on the papers

Its a nice car regardless, but I if I was selling I would certainly look at recomplying the original car details, at the end of the day if possible, even if it means being on white plates (which you could swap for some appropriate personalised plates)

[Bartman]

John Daly (owns JD motors in CHCH) has the original B&H 1200 SSS. He used to work for Tench brothers, and has lots of original documentation outlining all the things that made a SSS a SSS.

[Blair]

The only way to get a 100% right answer, would be to ask or get a hold of the guys who build them.......... Dennis Marwood, Brian Innes, Roger Anderson and Warren Broadbent, who knows alot about them, as he was the guy who pushed to get a licence from Nissan, Japan.

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